Friday, August 04, 2006

Women: The Power of Fuck Off

Interesting discussion over at the attack of the killer babies; add to that the results of this study regarding how race no longer plays a part in how women view themselves, and...There's just something I gots to say to the ladies of this here USofA:

Baby, I've been noticing that the tabloid rags are now pointing out when the same people they call too fat are now examples of being too skinny. I know, shit, right? They got you coming and going, don't they? Decade after decade of having the fashion rags show you nothing but examples of the swizzle sticks you're supposed to embody, being told that a size 8 is being morbidly obese, and suddenly being less than a size 2 is really unhealthy.

Then, you've got Madison Avenue and the porn industry all "your tits gotta look like this, if you don't got 'em like this, make 'em like that; your hair is supposed to be blonde; you're supposed to look good wearing this; you are old once you pass 25; men will only want to fuck you if you yaddablah yaddablah."

Yes, in this entry, I will be focusing on your looks, simply because I know that that's exactly what you're doing. I gotta tell you, I'm really getting worried about your fixation, because, baby: You. Are. Shithot.

The question is, do you fit into any of the categories mentioned above? Leaving aside the question of whether you want to, based on the constant hectoring you're receiving; would you even like to be in any of those categories, in your heart of hearts?

Hey, if you're genetically predisposed to belonging there, more power to ya, kid! I'm not about making anyone feel like shit, y'know? However, you're decidedly in the minority, loves, and this ain't about you.

Mamacita, odds are you're not being represented; and you're feeling a pressure from somewhere to be someone you ain't.

And I say, "Free yourself from those shackles, honey! You don't have to listen to any of it!"

Let me ask you something: Do you think the women of Europe are worried about this shit to the extent that you are? I can almost guarantee you that they're not.

Before you ask why, I can tell you right now, for a fact, that your latina sisters aren't either. As I stated in an entry about visiting my homeland:

...women in the states who feel insecure about their bodies could learn more than a few things from their Puerto Rican counterparts.

Maybe it's because latino men are equal opportunity lechers, I don't know, but there's an attitude to be found outside of the US that is sorely missing here. I like to call it Womanitude.

Womanitude is the opposite of "My blank is not blank enough, or is too blank." Womanitude is "not only am I caring/giving/smart/witty; not only am I these and other amazing qualities that I share without thinking about it; I am also hotter than the likes of you deserve, regardless of what I do and don't have." Womanitude is being and celebrating who you are; being in your skin; it's looking at Clive Owen, Luke Wilson, Johnny Depp, Leo DiCaprio or the manmeat of your choice, look at them with CFM intensity and saying "I know you want in this body; now, eat my ass."

All women have Womanitude, though it often goes un-nurtured. It's also under constant attack, by the magazines, commercials and images mentioned before. Movies like Deuce Bigalow, or anything set in high school (where "knockouts" become "uggos" by putting on glasses and sporting an unflattering haircut) do nothing to alleviate the situation. Fashionistas, celebrity magazines, random assholes and bitches with petty comments about your body don't do anything to help. Howard Stern and his devotees spend as much time as possible instilling the idea that there is a standard for "what all men are looking for."

Disabuse yourself of this notion as quickly as possible. Believe me, there is no such thing as a standard hottie. Those who find the women of Friends to be the zenith of what gets them sticky tipped may be more vocal about it; but for every guy who drools over Hillary Duff and her ilk, there's a guy out there who will kill to have a shot at Camryn Manheim. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Remember, Womanitude = "Fuck off if you can't deal." Womanitude = "Fuck you, mass media, for saying I'm not the shit." Womanitude = "Fuck you for making me feel inferior."

Now, gorgeous, I don't want you to go to the other extreme, and simply become all about your looks. The hoary line about beauty coming from within is still true, and a fully realized human being is still a hell of a lot more attractive than a Barbie doll.

Donyelle, from So You Think You Can Dance, has Womanitude. Iris Chacon, a Puerto Rican sensation in the Twiggy and Farrah era, had it when she was young, and she had it when she was older. And before you think I'm just about espousing the beliefs that Sir Mix-A-Lot sang about, Bjork, PJ Harvey, Allison Hannigan, and Peaches are all in possession of it.

Womanitude = Not taking any of this shit seriously.

24 Comments:

At 9:52 PM, Blogger JJisafool said...

I want some puss-say, and I ain't goooot none, so I write the blah-og, that get me sooo-ome, praise mama wo-men, tell her she pre-tee, you just empow-er, and the you get some.

 
At 2:32 AM, Blogger the beige one said...

HAHAHAHA!

JJ, have you been listening to reggae again?

On the serious side, it's about time to put a different viral meme out there, folks. Shit's getting stupid.

 
At 5:33 PM, Blogger rob said...

That Peaches sure does have something.

Too bad it's not presence, grace or talent.

 
At 10:21 PM, Blogger Stine said...

JJ - Just pissed myself, thanks.

And I say, "Free yourself from those shackles, honey! You don't have to listen to any of it!"

Let me ask you something: Do you think the women of Europe are worried about this shit to the extent that you are? I can almost guarantee you that they're not.


Of course they aren't worried as much as we are. Thank you Hollywood. I aspire to your high ideals as well, but honey, as women, we get PUMMELLED with that shit from every angle (pun intended I'm sure). Sometimes you can't avoid hearing, seeing, listening, eating or not eating every single thing you are "suppose" to be. It takes a lot of fucking mental work to steer clear of that shit sometimes. You add on top of that hormonal shifts, and guys, sorry, but we process this information differently. The parts of our brains that process this information are different.

It's a great ideal to aspire to, not giving a shit about the hoards of 20-somethings prancing by in their daisy duke's as the men in your presence get collectively sticky-tipped. But it's easier said than done. I agree with what you say, and as a 5 foot 11, one hundred and something something pound Amazon, try to work towards owning my shit every day. But I'd love to hear specifics, Dr. Phil, on specific steps and ideas on how to circumnavigate the barrage of 36-26-36's coming out of the walls. Like Patrice said, sometimes a girl just need validation, ya know?


Ah, come on Rob, ya know ya wanna some of that fruity tangy goodness. Those white shorts show it off so pretty like.

 
At 11:45 PM, Blogger Kate said...

Arright, so I recently heard an interview with Eve "pussy play" Ensler. I'm not sure what I think about the whole Vagina Monologues phenom, but she was talking about her new play "The Good Body". When I tuned in, she was talking about how everyone wants to characterize women's body issues as a personal issue, but IT IS NOT. It is a political issue. Basically as long as you keep a woman obsessed with her appearance, she ain't never gonna run for president.

What really got me in this interview was when she talked about Helen Gurley Brown, with whom she did several interviews for the play. So little Helen was told by her mother that she could only amount to anything by becoming as beautiful as she could be and by pleasing men. And of course she had a sister whom her mother decided was more lovely than she (hence crushing Freudian complex). So then, as we all know, she went on to found Cosmopolitan, a magazine designed to "help women" as she was helped by her witch mother. And also as we know, most of the articles in the history of that rag have to do with the MALE orgasm. Hey, I enjoy pleasing my man as much as the next broad, but it ain't so much of a challenge that I gotta seek out Cosmo's help! I mean where are the articles in Maxim about locating the g-spot? Sorry, I digress...

To this day, at age 84, Helen does 100 sit ups a day. She weighs 90 pounds. Soon she will be older than her weight.

 
At 11:55 AM, Blogger the beige one said...

JJ = Perfect example as to why some married men are the worst cock blockers in the world.

I often believe that the personal is political, and can't really think of a better example than this.

Thanks, Kate, for providing the HGB story that, for me, puts a spotlight on one of the various problem areas attached to this discussion: Through sheer repetitive and persistent stimuli, power has been taken from the personal and placed on a paper tiger. Read that story again, and tell me that it doesn't piss you off.

Why put one's self esteem at the hands of someone like this? And yet...

Stine, I hear you, but, I'm going to go ahead and include this as part of the equal rights movement. Any institution that systematically operates to make any portion of the population seem less than what they are is an oppressive one that needs to be changed. As with the civil rights movement, any change will need to happen first at the individual level.

If you didn't know by now, my belief is that human potential is limitless and can overcome any obstacle in one's way. Stine, you can't tell me that this is an insurmountable obstacle.

Both genders need validation, and men also get that feeling of "hey, what about me?" when the women around them make the floor dangerously slippery when George Clooney walks in. Men will also beat themselves up to get to a certain place of fitness to attract an Other. But when it comes right down to it, men find it easier to live in their own skin.

Why? I'd say it's not because we filter this stimuli differently (whatever science may say; at base we're all of us human), but because of what has been taught to us. Are these cultural lessons fair? What would it take to change the culture?

One step would be to recognize the cultural maneuvers for what they are and disarm them. Another is to quit cutting each other, and yourselves down, you know what I'm talking about.

But really, I don't know, I've got that pesky Y chromosone, and the struggle does not belong to men. I am only trying to provide keys and suggestions for changing the beast (ergo, own your Womanitude).

JJ will probably come in here and say that this won't go away, because it is too entrenched in the system, unless you burn the motherfucker down.

Ladies, please burn the motherfucker down. It'll do us all a world of good. Say what you will about the feminist movement, but bra burning was a strong movement that shook the halls of established culture; before the movement became fractured. Nothing has captured the zeitgeist since, and nothing will as long as people continue sitting on their hands.

I leave you, for the moment, with the words of Howard Zinn. He's talking about civil rights, but it's just as applicable here:

The lesson of [...] history is that you must not despair, that if you are right, and you persist, things will change.

 
At 9:06 AM, Blogger thelyamhound said...

That Peaches sure does have something.
Too bad it's not presence, grace or talent.


Between that and your thing with Starbuck, I'm again reminded why we don't ask GAY MEN for their opinions on ostensibly attractive women.

Now go stand behind that malnourished coatrack you call a closet.

:^)

 
At 10:21 AM, Blogger JJisafool said...

I'm probably gonna get a "le sigh" or some such backlash from this, but I just noticed it particularly:

Womanitude = Not taking any of this shit seriously.

Isn't this a little akin to the white chicks talking about what is racist? Perhaps you be meddlin' where you ain't shoulda?

Isn't it at least a little condescending and self-righteous to tell women that some aspect of their femininity or womanness - in this case their "womanitude" - depends upon their ability to subvert the effect of messages you don't have to deal with? Do you really, actually have any idea what it is like to live with the pressure of that influence?

(No, neither do I, but I get that.)

I might be inclined to tell you to fuck off, I don't need anymore goddamn pressure, I don't need any more men telling me what I should be, hadn't I this pesky Y chromosome.

 
At 12:25 PM, Blogger rob said...

Between that and your thing with Starbuck, I'm again reminded why we don't ask GAY MEN for their opinions on ostensibly attractive women.

Well, Ly...you of all people would know that there is no correlation between taste and sexual proclivity.

I've said it before, it holds true now, "Gay men: If they have such great taste, why do they fuck other gay men?"

 
At 12:30 PM, Blogger Stine said...

Well, Ly...you of all people would know that there is no correlation between taste and sexual proclivity.

Uhm...excuse me?

 
At 12:33 PM, Blogger the beige one said...

No, JJ, you don't get a le sigh. Instead, you get a "that's a very good point," and maybe I am meddling where I shouldn'ta, very true. But, uh, aren't you doing much the same by pointing this out?

As with most anything else I do on the blog, I hope to start discussion, and I keep bumping into this particular topic with women, of all shapes, sizes, and maturity, in real life. Stine points out that in the original blog that sparked this topic for me, Patrice was mostly voicing a complaint that validation was hard to come by, lately. However, within the comments, phrases like "what every red-blooded american male wants" appear. The study I linked to points out that all women have body issues, and yet who is talking about it openly?

I'd like to think that I'm neither condescending or self-righteous in saying "the preponderance of faulty messages is what's wrong here, not you." I'd like to think that there's nothing lofty in saying, "you can affect a change here," and "the movement starts with you." I'd like to think that it's plainly obvious that I'm not trying to sleep with anybody in the blog-realm when I say that confidence is a lot easier on the conscience than self-doubt that's been overfed by media.

While I'm here, I'd like to propose that maybe, just maybe, "unless the problem instigator goes away on its own, there's nothing to be done about it" is just about the worst solution to a problem as entrenched as this one.

What say we leave it to the ladies to tell me, JJ? Ladies? Are my objections over the topic as misguided as the white women decrying racism against blacks? Any and all thoughts on the matter are welcome. And if I'm a prat overstepping my bounds, then so be it; but at the very least, let's talk about it.

 
At 12:48 PM, Blogger rob said...

Uhm...excuse me?

Not aimed at you baby doll.

In fact, I think you're his only saving grace.

;)

 
At 12:58 PM, Blogger the beige one said...

oh, and JJ, while I may not live with the same pressures that women do, while I may not understand the exact effect that the constant messages of what perfection should be would have on a woman's psyche, I know I can tell you a thing or two about persistent media images and their effect on minorities.

Instead of going off about it though, I refer you to the "Attitude" tirade JD undergoes in season 1 of Scrubs.

Which doesn't let me off the hook for anything, but should contextualize a lot of what I talk about.

 
At 1:17 PM, Blogger JJisafool said...

The study I linked to points out that all women have body issues, and yet who is talking about it openly?

You obviously don't live in a household that contains many women's magazines or tunes very often into Oxygen Network.

And I have to say, given your proclivities, both facts surprise me.

While I'm here, I'd like to propose that maybe, just maybe, "unless the problem instigator goes away on its own, there's nothing to be done about it" is just about the worst solution to a problem as entrenched as this one.

Way to oversimplify a response nobody is positing there, Rumsfeld.

I know I can tell you a thing or two about persistent media images and their effect on minorities.

And there it is... I was waiting for it.

 
At 2:16 PM, Blogger the beige one said...

JJ, gonna take this offline. As often as I let side discussions derail commentaries, I do believe this to be an instance where the current focus deserves to be where it is.

 
At 12:02 AM, Blogger JJisafool said...

OK, so, like at first, I thought "taking it offline" was like "let's take this outside" and TBO was pissed at me because I'm a bit dickish, but he assured me that wasn't it, we were just getting off topic and could continue without boring y'all.

Which, y'know, cool that.

But, as I was riding a slow ass bus down to the ball game tonight (walkoff grand slam in the bottom of the 10th yeehaw), I asked myself why TBO's post made me react as I have, which is not positively and while laughing, which must be really annoying. Anyway, I came 'round to the answer.

You are talking to the wrong fucking audience, TBO.

When mass media normalizes a female ideal, it does so for the male eye and the female wallet. The ultra-thin aren't held up as generic ideals, but sexual ideals, as the ideal sexual partner, and for who? It isn't look like this, girly, because it is Pretty, but look like this so you will be desirable.

And, men are marketed, but as commodity not ad pitch, the same ideals of feminine beauty. We consume for leisure the images of sexual perfection that women are asked to attain.

And, because we use the images we are given to construct our notions of desire, we don't just think we want them, but we actually do. So effective is this tactic that men have been repeatedly, throughout history, been conditioned to desire looks that are not conducive to the biological imperitive - nurture kicks natures ass in this respect, otherwise broad, stocky, bosomy bitches would be all the rage, because they can raise them some pups.

So, here you are asking women to subvert a system in order to become more attractive while not really able to promise that as a tactic it will deliver the same sexual success that the system is promising, except for with men that think like you. Hey, ladies, don't do what they say, do what I say, because I'll respect you! Yeah, well, it's still some dude telling me what to do, so fuck off.

You claim that women can affect change in this system, and that may even be true, though I'd like to know just what power over the given system you are asking them to exercise, but that isn't the point.

How about this one instead:

Hey guys! Tell big media to take the unrealistic images of sexual perfection they are selling you and fuck off. Stop gobbling up pictures of cartoon versions of what women could look like, stop judging the women in your life by the .00001% asked to pose in Maxim, and love the beauty that is just women being women.

Don't tell them it doesn't matter how they look. Tell them they look fucking hot. Don't wait for a woman with one of the five traits Playboy affirms, tell every cchick you see she is gorgeous in any one of the thousands of ways chicks can be gorgeous.

You want women to be confident? It ain't their fucking job, not when they're already trying to be size 4 c-cups. Men, you listening, you want women to love themselves then FUCKING LOVE WOMEN!

Love women for the shape of their lips as much as the width of their hips, for those particular killer smiles as much as the killer abs, for a walk that moves mountains as much as an ass that can bounce quarters. Love them for the phrase that only they could have said, the dress you know has them standing just a little taller, for knowing when to just nod and smile and when to smack your punk ass down. And don't ever, EVER confuse fantasy and reality, because real beauty only lives in one.

That, TBO, is what I think would be effective in making the change. Sex sells, and the cock buys, or at least cock proxies. So talk to the cocks, tell them to get their heads on straight.

No, women don't only dress and look any way to attract men, and I share with you the sentiment that women should be free to just look and be themselves, and that should be more than enough it should be WOMANITUDE. But the system you are talking about? It has a dick, no doubt about it. Ain't the girls' job to change it. It is ours.

 
At 6:20 PM, Blogger the beige one said...

You know, there's a lot that I agree with here, and a lot I want to kick your ass for, JJ. Pretty infuriating, and what makes it worse is the fact that I can picture the grin and laugh you're experiencing as your read this, you motherfucker.

Look, if women want to kick my ass for what I've written, I sure as hell would appreciate it if you'd let them voice it, ya blowhard. You wanna talk about oversimplification and recontextualizing? Try this on for size:

Hey, ladies, don't do what they say, do what I say, because I'll respect you!

Fuck you, and you know goddamn well that this is neither my intent nor what I was saying. Oh, was that "how it sounded?" Is that how it "came across?"

Well, that may be, but I'd still prefer it if, instead, Angry Black Bitch came in here and reamed me a new one over it, because, at least HER PUSSY IS REAL, as opposed to yours. Or mine, for that matter; more on that somewhere, hopefully.

I love the male specific version, there is much to praise there, and I'm already doing my part. What about you, honcho? However, don't you see that by saying it "Ain't the girls' job to change it. It is ours," you are cutting off the very people who should be instrumental in any change that needs to happen.

Using this logic, black folks shouldn't have had a hand in demanding their freedoms and rights, because white folks would make sure that the blacks got everything they deserved. (Oh, but I suppose this may be another oversimplification. I couldn't disagree more.)

Can you tell me that you don't see how patronizing your assertion is? The only valid reform comes from those who are seeking it. For someone in love with the notion of burning the motherfucker down, you sound remarkably reticent to allow the people who should be holding the gas can and matches do so.

And so, you want to know where the fuck I'm coming from with the blog entry? Fine.

While I'm not an avid reader of the women's magazines you mentioned here, JJ, I've had more than my share of articles dealing with this topic sent to me over the years. They're all very good at pointing out what we already know: The system is fucked and it's run by males for males and the people who make money off of that. Nothing else.

Where the hell does this leave women? It seems the overriding impression is that 1) it's men's fault and 2) nothing can be done about it. Fuck. That.

Is that clear enough for you, JJ? Let me spell it out: FUCK. THE. CURRENT. SYSTEM. Get rid of it, destroy it. "oh, but it won't deliver the same sexual success." Sez the fuck who?

Do you honestly mean to tell me that the current system of having women constantly freak out about their looks, while the national pendulum swings from buxom to waif, and perpetuating the fear for generations on end works? Please, man.

Taking my inclination to view women as equals, as another set of Others who've been continually fucked with, and who need to revolutionize in order to have their needs met, I offer the first step: Become immune to what the system is giving you.

Even in the diluted "Smoove B-lite" fashion I tried to say that, there's a complaint that it's too hard to fight years of conditioning. Well, you know what? As noble as JJ's plan of attack is, it's not going to work. Nobody is going to hand this shit to anybody. It's a fight. It's a fight worth winning, and men aren't the ones who will win it for you.

Men, for once, will support, and there's more than just me out there willing to do so.

Will it happen overnight? No. It's gonna take steps, but the preparation needs to happen now.

You want condescending? It's in statements that it's not your job to learn or be taught to be confident because you're trying to fill out size four c-cups. You want self-righteous? It's in statements that assert that it is a man's job to ensure your equality.

If anything, it's a dual effort, but women need to be in control, not men.

JJ, I hope you're happy, the conversation has been taken over by two blowhards with penises.

Speaking of which, mine's around here somewh--oh, there it is. no wait, that's too small. JJ, is this yours?

 
At 9:03 PM, Blogger JJisafool said...

Oh, you frothy little progressive, you. We've already hashed much of this over beers this eveing, but I'll toss up a few responses.

Where the hell does this leave women? It seems the overriding impression is that 1) it's men's fault and 2) nothing can be done about it.

Um, no, I just believe that women are already responding to the extent they can. They aren't buying an image that they can't attain, they are being marketed an image we already empowered in our consumption. There are all kinds of ways to respond, and the badass beautiful women we know employ a wide range of them. But, the root of all the media-driven influence you speak of is male consumption of the images.

It is less "Ladies, you can't do anything about this" than "Fellas, we create this mess, and it is ours to clean up.

Let me spell it out: FUCK. THE. CURRENT. SYSTEM.

Well, yeah, duh, as a proponent of "burn the motherfucker down" I couldn't agree more. But, if I'm mad at a wall I don't run at it with my head. I figure out to actually dismantle it. And telling women that they have a new ideal which is Womanitude to adhere to isn't the right tactic.

Telling men to try and unfuck the clusterfuck? I have more faith.

However, don't you see that by saying it "Ain't the girls' job to change it. It is ours," you are cutting off the very people who should be instrumental in any change that needs to happen.

Yeah, well I feel the exact opposite about who should make reproductive rights decisions. Ain't our place to fix that, and when we try we fuck it up.

For me, this and any big discussion boils down to a clear understanding of the context. Given the discussion of media's effect on female body image, I read everything differently than you. I would tell any individual woman the same very cogent line you laid out, but never take it as a political line, because it doesn't operate that way. The personal is political, but that doesn't make them the same things.

White communista had plenty valuable to say to individual early black radicals, but when they led movements they decayed. Every individual man can tell the beautiful women in their lives (and that is all of them you motherfucking jerks) they are beautiful, but to ask womenfolk to accept it as doctrine and on faith is a fool's errand.

 
At 5:42 PM, Blogger the beige one said...

JJ,if you believe I'm not going to expose
the "let's spout off in person" ploy as an important part of your devious online debating scheme, you'd be wrong.

It's a great scheme, I must admit. Stoke the hornet's nest by mocking and throwing words and phrases like "condescending," "self-righteous," and "you're talking to the wrong people" about,then meet, hash it all out, and then come back after a particularly vehement entry and say "you frothy progressive you." *thumbs!*
(To be honest, I did ask you to both read and comment.)

You now, other people's foils are simply assholes...

Telling men to try and unfuck the clusterfuck? I have more faith.

Well, and I don't, I gotta tell you.
My thing here is the assumption that the majority will willingly make a change that will both benefit the minority in the way needed and address all of the issues.

Mayhaps you can think of a corresponding game theory you can attach to that...

The personal is political, but that doesn't make them the same things.

True, but the political can stem from the personal rather easily, and probably how it should be.

But, if I'm mad at a wall I don't run at it with my head. I figure out to actually dismantle it. And telling women that they have a new ideal which is Womanitude to adhere to isn't the right tactic.

Fair enough, and what I keep trying to tell you is that we, as men, aren't necessarily the ones to try to figure it out. You did a good job of finding the leverage point in the current system, though I don't think that a woman with a mind to make drastic changes would necessarily come to the same conclusion.

You've pointed out, here and in person,
that you think what I advocate is swell on an individual basis; in hindsight, it seems I did too, if unwittingly. Note the usage of "baby" and "mamacita" as opposed to "babies" or "mamacitas." (Again, think "Smoove B-lite.")

As I've said here, change begins on an individual basis; and Womanitude, as such, should be adopted or rejected individually.

You pointed out that there will be women who probably would agree to it on the surface, while continuing to behave and believe in the old system. The old stereotype that a group of women will have a hard time maintaining solidarity.

I'll allow that it's possible, but have to ask: What if those women were the minority? Is that too much to hope for, or even think of?

White communista had plenty valuable to say to individual early black radicals, but when they led movements they decayed...to ask womenfolk to accept it as doctrine and on faith is a fool's errand.

Which is why this "male feminazi" keeps insisting that he can't come up with a solution, that the thinking should be done by the interested party (if the party is interested?). To do so would be as presumptuous as saying that men will take care of it all.

I can say to look at how feminism's movement first made impact; look to ACT UP's actions in their prime; or that organization that traded the voice chips between the GI Joes and the Barbies...At worst, think of Lysistrata.

Two last things: In my vehemence and sincerity, if I gave the impression that Womanitude was the cure-all to these ills, I am sorry. It most definitely is not. It is but one of the weapons and shields you'd need for the battle ahead, if you chose to battle.

Also, during the not as two-way as one would like, yet still enervating conversation with JJ*, I started worrying that I was giving the impression that I was singling out people for the behavior I describe in the original entry; and in doing so, placing the ol' foot in the mouth in the fashion I am wont to do.

Patrice's blog entry (which is well written and well thought out and well worth reading) simply started me thinking; it was the survey results that prompted my entry. Stine voiced concerns I've heard many times before, and any seeming heat in my replies is simply based on familiarity.

Yadda blah yadda blah yadda blah.

I think I'm just going to post links next time through.

*I give him shit because I can't bring myself to punch him where he fucks quite yet, but man, is the dude begging for it. - TBO

 
At 5:45 PM, Blogger the beige one said...

what the fuck is up with the spacing there?

 
At 6:58 PM, Blogger JJisafool said...

My thing here is the assumption that the majority will willingly make a change that will both benefit the minority in the way needed and address all of the issues.

I'd be careful with that majority/minority business. I know what you mean, but the distinction of empowered/disempowered might better fit.

I agree that it is difficult to convince the majority to change for the benefit of the minority, but I see it as more likely, though HUGEly difficult, to convince the empowered that a change in the power dynamic benefits the disempowered and the empowered by extension.

Quick caveat - I would only label women as disempowered within a context, not generally. In the conxtext of media images and body image, I think it fits.

The old stereotype that a group of women will have a hard time maintaining solidarity.

Is this an old stereotype? I guess. But, recall, I set up that point by explaining how I base it in an insight from game theory, and the example I supplied was universal, regardless of the gender of the players.

I only state that a group of women will have trouble maintaining solidarity in the face of a given system because I believe a group of people will have trouble maintain solidarity.

I can say to look at how feminism's movement first made impact;

Which wave?


No, you know, I dig. I feel ya.

 
At 10:18 PM, Blogger the beige one said...

Which wave?

Nah, man, that's totally fair, and I guess I am specifically talking about the early 70s, before the fracture, the brief period of time where it was simply about all women getting ahead; before the capital F could be attached...Bolstered by the previous victories by the Suffragette movement, and the success of the Civil Rights era.

Which, in thinking about it, may be an impossible ideal to try to get back to...god knows any other like-minded progressive movements of that time are in similar states of disarray.

now I'm depressed.

 
At 3:16 AM, Blogger keda said...

hahahahahahahahhaaaaa chuckle.

 
At 7:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Damn, you guys are wordy. Anyway, Jose my friend I thought of you (and Anna. And Stine) when I saw this yesterday: http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEfall06/PATTcruelty.html

-rudbekia

 

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